First I love radiolab..
The program of be nice and then do what the other does with an exception of sometime reminds me of something. I feel being moses most of the time and jesus some time reminds me of islamic teaching. Its like the "mohamad" an eye for and eye but forgivness is better. And the person who starts the problem is in the wrong.
Anyway awesome show love all of it

Poor George Price
Did all he could to prove that good could exist without the greed

Would I have the courage to know
All the reactions caused by my own
Love and hate peace and rage
The bounty of my bones

Poor George Price
did everything he could to be a better man than I
Horrified by what he had found
In the equations that he broke down
Selflessness does not exist according to the math

How far would I go to survive
Would I be willing to sacrifice
The good I know and let it go
to see the animal Inside

Poor George Price
Crimson soaked scissors
Struggle in vain
to forget the absence of grace

( by TJ Arriaga)

I also want to know what music is played from minutes 3-4? Who wrote it? It's beautiful!

Thanks!

The Evolution of Cooperation, Robert Axelrod, emphasizes such notions of altruism as he embarks on the explanation of the "Prisoners Dilemma." It's a great simplified book to understand the mathematics thats involved.

It seems that there's a basic evolutionary element to cooperation that is ultimately a matter of self-interest or species-interest. But humans, and perhaps some other higher animals, have reached the point of there being some mental and emotional aspects that potentially take things to a whole new level. You can't say that of an amoeba.

I admit I dont fully understand Daves calculation, but I think dawkians are a bit to simplistic. Humans are very, very complex and add to that very, very complex cultures.

You cant calculate how the so called selfish gene will behave. I have CHOSEN not to have (biological) children. We do not have to do what the genes tell us to do, we can do the exact opposite if we like.

Would have loved to hear a discussion of biological altruism added to this story. Greenbeards, for example, illustrate the biological aspect of altruism, which is different from (at least) some aspects of human altruism. It informs and expands the conversation...

Hey RadioLab! There's probably another great show about Harvard evolutionary biologist Robert Trivers, both his work and his life. Ten years before Axelrod, Trivers was the one of the first to explore the implications of the Prisoner's Dilemma for evolution and coined the expression "reciprocal altruism."

E. O. Wilson is causing a huge public controversy by challenging the validity of the math behind the kin selection theory of altruism. Please consider doing a short that discusses this development. Be warned, Dawkins and Wilson on opposite sides and are saying inflammatory things about their opponents.

I really enjoyed this show, but it is ashame that on a segment on math (an equation) you fall for and perpetuate a common type of error people make when dealing with percentages or probabilities. You share 50% percent of your genes with your sister and 50% with your brother, but your sister also shares 50% with your brother. Half of those genes your sister and brother share you also have (since you each get a random 50% of the pool of genes from each of your parents). This means that by saving both your siblings, you are saving 75% of the genes. Of course there are two of them so they could potentially have twice the number of kids you would have had if you'd let them drown. If you would have ended up having two kids then 75% of your genes get passed down to the next generation meaning it's a wash on diversity but a loss on effective descendants (since your brothers plus your sisters kids would make four in total). If you would have had three kids then you're at a loss when it comes to gene diversity (75% vs 87.5%) but you're still double on effective descendants (interesting trade off there).

What is the song that is playing when they discuss George Price's suicide, approx/ 21:30-21:40 into the show?

Thanks for any help!

Enjoyed your analysis of the "Prisoner's Dilemma" Here's a version I adapted to use in the classroom. Made for a great activity to explore decision-making and communications. http://www.edteck.com/lessons/decision.htm

Radiolab is just the kind of info and discussion I want and need to hear. I'm a long retired professor who taught aspects of human development and I find in my oldness that the craving of the intellect doesn't go away!
Thank you for your work.
Libby Byers

What an engrossing segment. I listened with rapt attention. The ending hit me like a ton of bricks, I must say.

Hello,
Does anybody know how exactly Biological and Cultural (or Social) Evolution are similar AND differ?
Any good article out there summarizing it?

C

If there is no true altruism why did the brother not save himself before his sister? Why does anyone go in harms way, in order to protect someone else.

Any response?

Can anyone tell me any books over the "Why Families stick Together" subject?

Can someone tell me what the music is called that starts at 16:35? :)

Terrific show by the way!

The music in the beginning is Dorval by Julia Kent (from the album Delay). Quite lovely. And a lovely show.

Great show, however I just want to mention an unfortunate falsehood in your application of the "equation". If your sister has 50% of your genes, and your brother has 50% of your genes, you won't be saving 100% of your genes. The genes that you share with them are random. Some of those genes that your sister and brother share with you are identical, and some will be identical between them but not the one you have.

Great show!

I really want to know what the music is from minute 3 to 4? On the longer podcast version I got via itunes the music was a little longer.
What is it? Who wrote it? where can I get more like it?

Keep up the great work Radiolab!

I am new to this web/blog site. It appears intellectually addicting and thought provoking. I am glad I digressed and clicked away to Radiolab.

What an amazing program - thank you RADIOLAB!!! George Price's story is the
dramatic embodiment of the deepest mysteries of altruism. I highly recommend Oren Harman's book, The Price of Altruism, which is one of the best books I've read in recent (and not so recent) memory. The tale is deep and beautiful,
and should become a feature film. It's the kind
of moving human story that comes around very rarely, and that will touch every one's heart.